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Welcome to the Clanet Ninja podcast. My name is Jay Hassler. As always, I'm doing my best to bring you the finest in
clarinet information and entertainment. Today on the podcast, we have Todd
Marcus. Todd is a friend and incredible jazz-based clinet, a composer, a
community activist, somebody who's taken his heritage, his life experience, and
put it all into a wonderful mix of music and life. And he has come to share that
with us today. Todd is going on tour very shortly. As soon as you hear this, you should start looking for these
dates. I'm going to put them on the screen. these dates, these places, if you're close by, it would be a nice
thing to do to treat yourself to hearing these two play live. It is a real treat.
And while we're here, don't forget to like, subscribe, five stars, review, all
of that. Perhaps tell a friend who likes the clarinet or likes jazz or likes classical music. We do it all here as
long as it relates to the clarinet. And uh you can find links to Todd uh his
nonprofit Intersections of Change, to all of his music, to everything about him. And you know what? You can find
some stuff about me, too. If you are an adult clarinetist looking to accelerate and amplify the fun in learning the
clarinet, Clanet Ninja Dojo has a place for you. Whether you're just getting started, whether you're making a return
after a long time, or if you've been playing pretty seriously for a number of years, we've got something for you. And
it's a wonderful way to uh learn the clarinet, have a good time doing it, and get some really really good support and
instruction. I got you. All right, no more no more talk except for when we're talking to Todd Marcus. Todd Marcus,
welcome to the show. How are you doing? Good. Good to be here with you. I want to make sure that everybody that follows me and listens to my stuff knows
about the bass clarinet and specifically jazz bass clarinet. And what better person to
speak with than Todd Marcus. What's your origin story? I started uh well actually before the
clarinet I started my mom had my brother and I take piano lessons uh at a Yamaha
school and then uh when we were in the fourth grade that's when our school started give kids a chance to start on
instruments and I picked the clarinet. And so that was that was the the
instrument that I began with uh as a horn and played that all through elementary school and high school and
then into college. And it was it was in college that I finally got a chance to
to uh mess around with jazz. And uh I met a friend that gave me a record by
Eric Dolphie, the great multi-instrumentalist and bass clarinetist. And I heard that and I
thought, "Oh boy, right now as I'm trying to figure out jazz, everything I play sounds like I'm a bad Dixie Land
player or something." But that clar that bass clarinet had just a a much to my
ears a much broader range of the sound, the tone, the depth. And so that's why I
said, "Okay." And that was 1997. And I I I went about getting a a bass clarinet
and and then made that switch. the most obvious comparison, and I think that that that's something that that uh I'm
sure you'll agree with this. In the comments of videos I watch of yours, Eric Doy comes up a lot because I think
that that's our only point of context most of the time for a jazz bass clinet
player. He's definitely the godfather of of the instrument. I mean, there I mean, there
were people that were playing kind I mean, always as in big bands, it's been used as a double. You know, saxophone
players will pick up uh their flutes or clarinets very commonly. The baritone
saxophone player in a big band also doubles on bass clarinet, but and so you
had that, you know, over the the big band days and everything, but you you very rarely had someone playing bass
clarinet as a solo instrument until Dolphie does it. And even even the stories about when he was playing with
Mingus and he brought that in and Mingus didn't want any part of that. He said, "No, get that out of here." And Dolphie
was persistent and and you know, brought it and kept doing it. And then he went
over Charles Mingus with the bass clarinet that became and and it's it's like he's a cult a cult leader almost,
you know, at this point because of him introducing it and because of his playing so unique, um it's had a stamp
on everything that's followed. Now, you don't have to play like him, but you know about him. He you probably have
most of his records. You checked it out. That was the gateway to to the instrument in jazz. So that's
significant. When I first heard you play in Denver uh in the at the convention, like it really
struck me that you're playing the bass clarinet and that is in a lot of ways
the only similarity I hear between you and Dolphie because your music is based
in something completely different than what he was doing. So from an artistic standpoint, same instrument, but an
incredibly different statement for sure. I I don't Is that an accurate Is that something that you feel?
It is. And it makes me think about something that the clarinetist Don Byron said in an interview that I remember
reading years ago that really kind of paralleled my feeling, which was it was I think it was a um Don Byron was being
interviewed in Downbeat magazine and one of their blind listening tests. And so
for folks that don't know that that they put on a different artist and the guest has to say, "Oh, this is this is this is
the person in this year, this recording." Well, they put on some Eric Dolphin. And he said, "Yeah, that's that's Dolphie." Um, and then he went on
to say, you know, uh, that's that's not that's a whole world unto itself. He
said like there's probably some some tribe out there somewhere that's just like a dolphy cult tribe, you know, it's
just so unique, so strong, so powerful that either um you are going to embrace
that and as a result people hear you and they're like and they're going to say, "Oh, you know, yeah, he's doing that
Derek Dolphie thing." Or you're going to have to step away from that and do your
own thing. And so that's I feel like that's very accurate. I bought all all of Dolphy's records when I was getting
into the music because that was the one of the few examples that was out there.
And so you you study that, you learn that, but um for me it was definitely as
you you said I found I wanted to go in a my own direction. And really as far as players, John Cold Train was more of an
influence uh playing wise, contentwise than than Dolphie was. But because of him being that that OG on on the bass
clarinet, you know, that still holds an very important significance.
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I'm more of a jazz historian than player, but still not that much of a jazz historian. I love the music. I feel like Eric Dolphie came out of a
tradition like you I can hear the roots of where he came from, but I can't conceive of taking from where he left
things to another place. I feel like he grew. He's a branch that came off the tree, but it's almost impossible to then
take and make something more out of it. What he did was so spectacular. And so,
I mean, it was really different. Not so much because he was playing the bass clarinet. He sounds really different on the alto as well. On the alto, I can
feel it rooted more in Charlie Parker than on the bass clarinet where it just sounds sometimes a little bit bonkers to me because because the range is so big
and what he's doing with it is so crazy. Yeah. No, that's an interesting observation. And I think that's that's
accurate because you think about just jazz in general and kind of
stylistically from the early days in in in New Orleans and uh stylistically the way the music was played then. And
you're right, you know, Dolphiey's playing in the the late 50s in this the early 60s, you you're right. He had
these big intervals. Um, you know, just rhythmically it was very intense and um
harmonic harmonically it was it was it was more advanced, right? And so it's
not like someone that started at a more traditional approach and then expanded. Dolphie kind of had the stories are like
he would he I mean he was from LA and he would be out on the beach practicing playing interacting with the birds, you
know, bird calls and playing back to them. And so he had this unique more
more uh um you could say
guard approach already from the beginning. So yeah, I don't know that you had somewhere then to to go further
from that. I mean, actually thinking about his last records, um, which I think the last record was on Blueote
Records and it was maybe it was a reflection of taking it further because it was him and an opera singer.
I remember that one. Yeah, that was so that was the first record I ever had of Eric Dolphie and it wasn't a it was a
cassette. I remember listening to it on my Walkman when we were on a family vacation and and and I remember that that first piece which was almost just
like a rhythm, right, that he was playing. there wasn't a lot of uh harmony involved in it. I sure remember
listen to it in the car thinking simultaneously as a teenager would like the heck is this but also completely
fascinated by it like like I knew it wasn't a joke but at the same time I didn't know what it was and that's like
a beautiful thing to interface with something where you can't recognize any context for this. I don't know what it is but I'm certain it's worth listening
to. to your point I mean since playingwise his his style of playing was already so far advanced and and more on
the avant guard so like what is there then left to what boundary what envelope is there to push further well it would
be the music itself just stylistically and so maybe that's why we hear you know
in that case that it was really moving past kind of traditional jazz boundaries into something very different
there's a certain part of his tone the way he plays the saxophone specifically That sounds like I can hear Ornette in
it, but I can also hear Charlie Parker in it, right? In terms of the the the way that the the harmony like the way
he's the language that he's using with with the notes, it's a singular thing. And that that that to me transcends what
instrument he happened to be doing it on, you know, but but since there there's we hear a lot more flute and
definitely a lot more alpha saxophone, the bass clinet sort of stands alone in terms of that contribution. when I hear
your music, I hear uh a lot of other influences. I've heard you play uh with Virginia McDonald, which I want to get
to later on in the conversation, but I but I also got the chance to hear your ensemble compositions, the Clan
Convention in Denver a couple years ago. I' I've heard you talk about it like to the audience, but I want to get a little
bit deeper in terms of the influences that are in your music and in in your writing because I mean in addition to
being a I would call you a spectacular jazz bass player, your writing is also
very compelling. Oh, thank you. And and it's something that I take very seriously. I would say that it's as equal to my identity and
and artistry as my my bass clarinet playing and soloing. So, I'm glad that
it comes across because that's that's I feel I'm an equal composer as as a bass clarinet player.
The Egyptian heritage in your life plays a role in the music that you create.
It's not like every piece has an Egyptian influence, but some of them do. And I'm curious to know like what is it
that makes that sound? like even harmonically. I mean, get in the weeds a little bit with me on terms of like how how does that how does that
heritage and the sound of the music I mean what are the nuts and bolts of getting that sound in the music?
Well, for me, I would answer that by going back just to how I I kind of
explored it. And that is that so my dad was Egyptian and immigrated to the US in
his his mid20s. And um he didn't have anyone to speak Arabic to
at home because my mom was from Pennsylvania. And um you know, even when
you folks see me, they're surprised to learn that I'm half Egyptian because I got my mom's features. Um, so you know,
we had chances to go back to Egypt starting when I was in the seventh grade and then reconnected with family there.
But as I got older and I really wanted to explore more of that part of my
culture as a musician, I was interested to see what was Middle Eastern offering,
music offering. And so I asked my dad for some recordings and he had some that he had brought with him. And so it was a
lot of listening to that and then just kind of picking it up by ear. And in Middle Eastern music, you've got a lot
of unison playing uh a lot of uh lines in unison that are over drone notes. And
um it's very different than our kind of jazz harmony or western harmony. They
almost I say they're almost like oil and water because you try to merge the two and they kind of dilute or they don't
want they don't want to mix so well. Uh a lot of times I found that if I would
try to put some of that Middle Eastern lines over top of some jazz chords, it
just it it lost its its potency versus if you just had it uh by itself. And so
it was a lot of experimentation to figure out how could I make it work uh with certain harmonies and figuring out
um different in Middle Eastern music they call macams there basically what what we call scales they call them
macams and there's a quarter note system versus our half note intervals and uh
while I'm not doing uh quarter note fingerings I haven't worked that through but I did figure out an approximation of
some of these Middle Eastern scales and It's been a lot of work of getting that
under my fingers, getting that in my head, getting it in my ears so that when I'm either playing uh a solo or when I'm
writing, I can incorporate it and then you hear that you hear that identity and that sound coming through.
Now, when you're talking half note and quarter note, you're talking not rhythmic divisions, but divisions in
terms of Sorry. If I Yeah. Not not half note or a quarter note but uh half tones or
quarter tones intervals. Yeah. Just want to make sure I in between RC and C sharp there is a a
pitch halfway between those two. That would be essentially a quarter tone,
right? But they they wouldn't call it a quarter tone because they they they're not thinking of it in a half step to begin with. So it's not really a quarter
of anything to to to a Middle Eastern musician. It's just right. That's part of that mac. that
skill, right? What I saw, just to give full context, was a bunch of a bunch of people who I'm sure are really wonderful
musicians. Well, I know they are. I heard them play in Denver. And so, you hand them your charts. Is there anything
in the charts that require them to do anything that's a non-western
uh concept in the performance? No, they they just have to read the music. and and and again I have not uh
worked out for myself the quarter tones uh and I don't have that in the charts
for them. So you know I wanted to be stuff that was easily could be reasonably performed by anyone here in
in the US. So you know easy enough for anybody to to read and play down. It's important that when you put music
in front of people that they don't have a an unwanted challenge, right? But but but that's not necessarily to protect
their feelings, but that's just to get a good performance, right? I mean, I get the music to tell. I mean, and it allows it allows in that
setting where here in that performance in in Denver where it was not an option
for me to bring my own band. Uh, it was musicians that were based there, wonderful musicians. Um, but I got to be
able to send the music and and for them to be able to play it. Now, by contrast, there's a wonderful trumpeter named Amir
Elsafar. He's um he's based in Newark area. um and his family comes uh immigrated from Iraq and he's done
wonderful work also combining Middle Eastern music and and jazz and I think whereas my music falls more on this side
you know it's that split but leans more towards the jazz side his is that split and leans a little more to the Middle
Eastern side and his band I think you know they are incorporating definitely the quarter tones and so that's
something that I don't I don't I suspect that it would not be an option for him
to have just like a a pickup band somewhere because I think a lot of those pieces of his are definitely contingent
on those musicians needing to be able to to do quarter um quarter tones and and and then that's just a whole unique
skill set.
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If somebody wants to dive into Todd Marcus and his music, what would you say is the record that they should start
with? What recording should they look for? I mean, I feel I always say when people
um say, "Well, which is your favorite recording?" I said, "Well, do you have kids? Which is your favorite kid? What's your favorite child?
Well, well, but I'm not even saying like what's your favorite, but but if somebody wants to like So, what's what's
this Todd Marcus character all about? What record would be like the the the best entry point for somebody?
So, I I'm going to say that I'm going to say my most recent one, which is with my ninepiece group called In the Valley.
And that I I give that one because it's got my compositional work. It's got my
uh lush arrangements with my ninepiece group which six six horns, piano, bass, and drums. Uh it's got my soloing as
well as a lot of other uh musicians all soling on that as well. And uh and it's the most recent writing which I think
shows the the the progress that my my writing has gone to. If they wanted a smaller group, then I would say uh maybe
my record called On the These Streets, Baltimore Story, which uh is a quintet
and integrates my my playing, my composing, and also another half of my
life, which is very much uh doing community work here in Baltimore, Maryland, where I'm very involved in my
neighborhood and separately have from music have a community nonprofit that I'm a part of and co-founder of. So
those would those would be my two as far as how people could get their feet wet in in my music and work.
I I want to this is a clarinet podcast but I do want to hear about the other
part of your life which I think you know I think as you just stated has equal importance to you and you did what every
parent wants their child to do which is go to college but not for music. Right. And like so
you you went as a political science major initially. That's right. Right. And then then finished or may maybe got a further
degree. I'm unclear as to that. But up at Ruckers in what? I haven't written up here. Urban studies participation in the
music program was an additional thing you were doing to that. But you weren't a music major as far as I know. Right. And and I think that that's something
that I think a lot of people and and young people who are very good at music and are interested in music kind of
forget is that you can be great as a musician and it doesn't have to be the
only thing that you do and it doesn't have to be the only thing that you're interested in. But a lot of people push this narrative of you have to want it
more than anyone else in the world. Like you have to do this singularly otherwise you don't have any chance because the music world is really hard right which
you know the music world is really hard. I mean there is truth woven into that and I think that it probably is helpful
to not do anything else but at the same time to be a fully formed human it's
really good to have some other interests but even more than other interests other passions and so the I'm taking you and I
actually haven't really talked about this very deeply but I'm interested to know and I I read uh about a pastor
pastor Harris is that right am I remembering this right that that you got got involved with and really triggered
what was and become like a very very important thing to you. So I'm going to sort of give that vague framework and
ask you to fill in every gap that we need to completely understand what yeah you know I I I grew up in New
Jersey and then uh went to came down to Baltimore to go to college and I was
studying political science. My dad uh you know was a a teacher, a brilliant
historian um and he would always have um
videos on uh you know historical videos and just so you know I got interested in
that kind of stuff and and was studying political science and then at the same time I was still doing music. Uh the the
college that I came to in Baltimore was called Lyola and um had a smaller little music program and I was playing all the
classical stuff at that point, the vapor and the Mozart uh concertos and all that kind of thing. But it was a chance where
then I was able to play in the jazz band in high school. I had been turned away. They said no, the director said, "No,
you have to play saxophone if you want to do jazz." And uh so it was finally there in college that I got that late
start getting introduced playing these these big band charts and a lot of the the standard jazz tunes. And so uh I did
that for two and a half years. But at the same time um I started volunteering in West Baltimore at a chapter of
Habitat for Humanity. And then during that time I met a a a restaurant under
the neighborhood. And there was one week they didn't have any work for the uh Habitat didn't have any work for me and
the volunteers. And this guy rolled up, Elder CW Harris says and he said, "I'll put you to work." And we went down a
couple blocks to this vacant building. And at the end of that day, I said, "Well, I'm here every Saturday. Can I just work with you?" And that began a
friendship and a partnership that is now 30 years in. Uh because I I dropped out
of school. I didn't see career-wise myself headed in to political science at
that point. You know, it was getting more into studying like uh congressional races and legal theory and man, that was
just not appealing as far as a passion. But I was feeling passionate about community and um and and um racial
issues and uh ongoing racism and need for racial reconciliation. And here I'm,
you know, in this neighborhood, West Baltimore, which was basically like the Harlem of Baltimore.
Uh things were all coming together. This this opportunity to be engaged in community. Um a community that had this
rich history of the music. I mean, here I'm falling in love with Col Train and Miles and and Duke Ellington and Gary
Barts and all these people played in and what's now my neighborhood. So I I left school, did Americanore for two years.
Uh we kept working uh on renovating the buildings and started up this nonprofit
called Intersection of Change and um and from that uh eventually you know
simultaneous I was still working during the day doing all that but coming home at night and practice my horn and trying
to learn jazz and I had no social life. It was just community work during the
day and practice horn at night and that was that was it. And that was for many
years. and um went and finished up my schooling like you said, got it uh my
degree in a couple semesters at Ruters in urban studies, but uh then kept on pushing. And so the result of all of
that long-winded uh journey is that I've got this one part of my life that's in
community work at our nonprofit, Intersection of Change, and this other half of my life that is playing music
and doing it at a high level. And um they're they're meaningful. They're they're both significant to to who I am
as a whole. I mean, it reminds me a little bit of when I when I think about Ron Odrich, who's another jazz clam player who had
an entire career as a periodontist, right? Where they're two separate things that obviously take a lot of time and a
lot of effort. And I understand that the notion of you have no social life if you're trying to do
basically the work of two people, you know, in a sense. And you know, but the richness
that comes from it is really amazing. I I would imagine that both of your endeavors are strengthened by the other
one at a certain point. I mean, in the beginning, it must have been exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. And I often people say,
"Well, is your dream to be able to do music full-time?" Um, not necessarily because uh to what you
were kind of opening this this thread of our conversation with earlier, I think that there is something there's a danger
of us. I mean in in music the danger is that we can be all consumed and we can
lose a broader context of the world around us and even to to a degree like
just how we interact with others. Um it's a very singular self-focused thing,
right? We're in the practice room. We're we're promoting our performance. We're promoting our CD, our, you know,
website, our social media. That's pretty self-indulgent, right? And I mean it
it's it's we have to it's we're creating our own product and everything. So it's who we are as indiv individuals as an
artist. So we have to do that right we have to but it's it's a dangerous kind of thing right like how do we do that
but still remain a balanced and integrated human being. And so, uh,
yeah, for me, I think while I would love to have more time to practice and more
time on all the business booking work and administrative work, um, I do feel
that my community work is really key to who I am as an overall person. And, um,
it's demanding. It's it's it's a lot. It's a, you know, I'm carrying a big workload, but you can do it. And I think
that there's benefits of that. And I think musicians they they also, you know, it's not that they um they don't
do that because then a lot of folks uh teach and and u and I think that's another way that we as musicians can be
well-rounded, interacting and nurturing other younger musicians and and and outside of just being focused on oursel
and our own playing. So there's different ways to go about it, but for me that's that's how my path has been.
Well, I'm going to put the the link intersectionof.org is the Yeah, right. I'll I'll put that down in the
show notes. It's nice to see that the music world and a person in music is reaching out in a way that is not asking
for something in return, right? Cuz I think so much of what we do as musicians
often times is to create an audience for ourselves. So it it it's serving the
community in some way, but there is a hidden agenda, which I'm not even saying it's a bad thing, but your work doesn't
have a hidden agenda, right? You're not trying to create an audience. You're not hoping that people that you're working with in the community are going to
become big jazz bass clarinet fans. I don't think that that's the point, right? So,
I mean, why not? But, you know, but but that I don't think that's the motivation. That would be funny if if
the whole this whole time like our mission of addressing poverty related challenges in in in our community in
West Baltimore. It was all just like a smoke screen for building jazz listeners.
Long way around the barn. Getting this focus back on clarinet for a second. I know that you during the pandemic did
some work with silos mouthpieces and have have created a a mouthpiece for
bass clar players. And I I mean I already know about I could talk about it myself, but since you're here, could you tell us about it?
Yeah. So, I think this really stems from my identity as a bass clarinetist in
jazz where uh as we were talking about earlier, there's not a lot of examples. And one of the things that I found when
I started playing and sitting in at jam sessions was not how poorly I played, but that I couldn't hear myself. And uh
it was um an awareness that our bass clarinet is a pretty quiet instrument
certainly compared to saxophone. And so a big part of the challenge was okay, how are you going to be heard? And a lot
of it is long tones and putting more air into the horn. But in that process, what
I found is you need a much more open mouthpiece. And so years ago, I worked with the the mouthpiece maker Bill
Street uh up in Maine. and uh he would make a more and more open mouthpiece and then I built my own baffle uh and
modeled it out of clay and then I got epoxy from Home Depot and uh and created my own and and shaped it. Um but one of
my projects during the pandemic was okay I I'd like to see and I had a very bright tone, a very driving tone which
has been crucial for me to be able to hang in there even when the drums are louder and and faster tempos. Uh but I
made some changes during the pandemic. had bought a new bass clarinet and I wanted to get a little more of the traditional warmth in there. And so I'd
been seeing the Scios mouthpieces and I said like what what's up with all these Skittles looking mouthpiece colors and
everything. And then I when I learned I thought it was just a weird gimmick, but then when I learned that they were 3D
printing them, I was fascinated because I thought, "Oh, this this is going to be
an opportunity to look at some options that are not necessarily available
through traditionally constructed mouthpieces." and um uh uh their their
founder uh Paulina uh uh is is uh got a
a background in engineering and acoustics. Um and so from a science standpoint, it
was a chance for me to say, "Here are the qualities. I've got this big sound,
this projection. Uh I want to get a little more warmth back in here. what can you design that will achieve this
mission? And so we had 18 months back and forth uh where they sent me
different prototypes and I would test play test them, give them feedback and finally we got to the to the end uh
which is this Todd Marcus signature mouthpiece and
it's something unique. Uh I think that when you look at what's available for bass clarinet players and uh to this
kind of unique task of of playing in jazz or if you're I mean there are people that play you know people play in
uh rock settings our bass clarinet has got this broad kind of scope and usage
these days. So, um, so that's the journey and and what the mouthpiece that resulted in that was something different
that allows people to be able to hang in there in these settings that would normally just be like default, you got
to go and play this saxophone in order to be heard. It does make sense to me that there was not a wide range of mouthpieces that are
suited to what you wanted to do because there's not that many people historically. I think you're right now
things have changed, but historically that that wasn't a big market. And I and it would seem to me that the R&D process
with a traditional hard rubber mouthpiece would take longer and be more expensive than in the 3D printing world. So it's amazing to like really leverage
that advantage to be able to get a product that does fit. I mean, yeah,
there's never going to be as many of those sold as a 5 RV liar, right? Because that the five RV liar is something that can go to tons and tons
of people. But it's really nice when somebody wants something specific that someone has taken the time to make it. I
remember in again in Denver, you know, talking to you about that mouthpiece and then hearing you play because when we first met, like you were talking about
the mouthpiece and and I I had I had the same response to the multicolored, you know, marketing because it seemed like
they were just sort of selling something that wasn't legit. But then, you know, hearing you play on it, it's more than
clear that it's it's it's a legit thing. What What color is your mouthpiece? So, here's the thing. I mean, again,
props to Pauline Aino, who is the the founder of the company, and again, this
expertise as a as in a she's got her doctorate in acoustics, but I think that
u the the the color stuff is a brilliant marketing thing, right? Like you you see
that and you know, oh, it's one of these these mouthpieces. Now, your question, I am not comfortable playing a yellow a
banana yellow mouthpiece. Um, and I think props to them again for their
strategy because if you are an artist that designs your own signature mouthpiece with them and they're putting
that out on the market. You cannot get that in black. You can get some black mouthpieces from them, but they will not
let you get that in black. And I assume that that's because they want it to be known that this is a signature. Hey,
we're going to take the time and create a mouthpiece in partnership with you. We got to make sure it's identifiable. So,
um, so in answer to your question, I've got my my blue one. I, uh, I got a
little I put a little red mark on it so that you can see. I've got a a gray one
as well, but, you know, I'm I'm not going like cherry uh, red or or purple,
fuchsia, or banana yellow. I'm I'm I'm keeping a little more toned down, a little more conservative.
I completely agree with you. I can't play on a on a non-traditionally colored mouthpiece. my I I inhabit a world
that's much different than yours cuz like when I go to work I'm not really supposed to be like you know I'm one of
a lot of people that could do it you know on Broadway the point is not to stick out right you don't want to stick
out and even even in the orchestral work that I do it's I mean you're you're one of many you're one of a large group and
the the idea isn't to draw attention to yourself in that way but in when you are leading a group you can play what you
can play your mouthpiece could be you neon because it's I mean your name's on the on the ticket, right? So I feel I
feel like you can you if you if you felt comfortable, you could do it in a way that wouldn't be ridiculous. I I feel
like for me to play on a on a on a bright red mouthpiece or a yellow mouthpiece would I'd be attracting a lot
of attention and anytime anything was weird, it would be because of that well sounds
weird because of that yellow mouthpiece, you know, to a to a violinist in the middle of the section. They they would not stop to think about it any more than
that. So, I I I totally get that that feeling. But, you know, when when your name's on the record and and you know,
you're you're you're on the marquee, you can play whatever color mouthpiece you want to, but I do I do recognize the
importance of playing dark blue or gray, which is tamping it down a little bit. So, it it feels okay.
You know, the funny thing is now, I mean, it's not just Scios that's got these unique colors. I'm sure you've
seen um several of the mouthpiece makers now have these ones that are kind of
they look like bowling balls. Yeah. Right. Uh I know um
Brian Corbin's got his own mouthpieces that have that kind of textured. Uh I think uh your guy Brad Bane has that as
well maybe if if I'm remembering. I I don't I don't know that Brad has that. I know Lee Living good has has
that. Uh I know Vandor has like a marble looking Yeah. It looks like the marble like a
bowling ball with like the the streak kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean they're abs Well I was
talking to Lee about it at the the most recent clarinet convention and uh and he said that that the rubber that that that
is made that way does sound different. Like the different colors had different tonal properties. Um,
and I I'm willing to believe that. I'm not saying that that's not true. I again
I have the same concern about playing on such where someone's going to look at it and be like, "What's that?" You know,
like like I play a a Brad Bane adjustable barrel, which I I I love it. Uh, but it still attracts attention, you
know, when particularly not from clarinet players, but from everybody else that doesn't play the clarinet. Oh, what's that? you know, and and if and
then it becomes one of those things. If you sound good, it must be because of that. And if you sound bad, it must be because of that, you know, and none of
it's true, right? The the perception is powerful. I want everyone to get some
information about the work that you and Virginia McDonald have been doing, including this tour that's coming up. The the way that you two play together,
it sounds like this incredible, like when you guys play play heads together, it sounds like this bizarre giant
clarinet. the way that you guys blend. It's like the coolest thing in the entire world. Like, and uh you don't
have to talk about that part of it. That's just me. But uh but talk about the work that you guys have done. I've heard you on tour. And when I went to
hear you play at Smalls, I guess that was a year and a half ago, I felt like I was hearing
great music that as it stands today is great. But I also
heard like a certain kind of stretching that I imagined it was much like hearing
music in the 60s where it was going somewhere that this isn't necessarily
I wouldn't classify it as off on guard. I don't think you would either, but it but it had a way that somebody is
searching for a sound. Someone is creating something in a way that isn't like I didn't feel like I was hearing
you play the same thing that you must have played last night. like I I felt like that there was there was a an au
authenticity to it and a creative spirit to it that the idea was to play
something much much different than you had played on any other night and it wasn't so much like anybody was playing
safe. People were doing things that had a real feeling of we're trying to take this somewhere right now in front of you
and it was a really wonderful thing to hear. Well, thank you. Yeah. And I I think that that's I mean playing with Virginia
these past several years has been a joy and uh a kinship around
the way that we both want to present the clarinet and the bass clarinet and modern jazz and show what we're capable
of and being just as intense and powerful and beautiful as a saxoponist
in this music and exploring uh and and like you you're mentioning uh finding
different stuff and when we're on tour finding ways to creative with the same song each night in a different place.
And um I mean that's what that's that's the that's the joy of being able to tour
with great musicians is um being creative and artistic. And
for me I I've long I've long liked presenting when I'm doing a quintet my
music with another fellow clarinetist. Don Byron is is one of my my musical heroes that uh I've was inspiration for
years and then it's over a decade that we've been playing and making music together and done touring and um and
then Virginia has been another one in that that similar kind of kinship. She and Don are very different players but
both beautiful and powerful um artists in their their own ways. And so yeah, I
I love doing that. And we had a tour this year. Well, we've done a lot of playing this year. We were one a couple
in Baltimore and then uh she had us up in Toronto and Buffalo and then I had a
tour where we were in New York and Philly and Cincinnati and Cleveland and next month we head down south to
Virginia and Tennessee. So trying to make as much as much happen as possible. Been having good success with it so far.
What information do you think could be helpful to people that are not improvisers that want to become improvisers or not bass clarinetists or
that are clarinetists that want to play the bass clarinet? What are some things that you found to be helpful or maybe hurdles that you had in in that
endeavor? For me, I I talked about how significant it was to learn about Don
Byron as um someone after after I had explored and found Eric Dolphie. And
then I wanted to see well, you know, what what's an example of clarinet and more modern jazz and a little more of a
straight ahead kind of approach. And for me, coming across Don Byron's work was so tremendous in that because it showed
me a model. And I think that I think that's the the bottom line is that
anything that you want to do, look to see who's doing what inspires you, what you like, and then, you know, start um
studying that. And in in music, it can be transcribing a solo, it can be just
there has to be listening, right? you got to be listening and and getting that in your head. Um, and I'm really a big
believer that we we able we are able to teach oursel a lot. For me, theory and
harmony, a lot of that began because I didn't know that earlier on. And so I
sat at the piano. Okay, what is a C major 7 chord? And I would just outline
it. C, E, G, B natural, and then what's the dominant? B natural becomes a B
flat. And then I I would be on the bus and I would drill myself and say, "Okay, uh A is the the ninth of of what chord,
you know, or what's the sharp 11 of of G?" And I would kind of just repetition.
And so, um so that's how I I went about it. But I think nowadays it's just so
easy. All you got to do is open up Google and you want to like give me ideas on on improving my time. and you
know, you got a million and one videos that are coming up. So, there's no shortage
of of information there for you. And maybe that's why people at such a young age are so advanced at this point. Uh,
and then of course finding a good teacher, right? That's I I think that interestingly because I'm self-taught, I
had I was a slow it was a slow process. I started late. It was slow going. I think I had some bad habits that would
have been corrected by if I had had a a regular teacher. So, I think having a
teacher is is important, too. And it doesn't have to be like an every week kind of thing. I think you get a good
lesson that'll give you tons of information and stuff to work on for months, even years. So, you get a a
lesson every now and then, and that can go a long way. So I feel like those are the those are the key options about how
you know if you if you wanting to learn music or anything really you can go
about it these days. I I want to reflect back and see if if I'm picking up the things that that uh I
think are most important in terms of what you said. Number one having a a clear idea of what you want to do
right because I mean when somebody wants to be a jazz player what does that mean? Right? And I think a lot of people want
to do that, but it's not really clearly identified in their mind. What does that mean? What what what path am I trying to
follow? Because as soon as you figure that out and you really have that in your ear, you can then find the things
that are going to help you do that specific thing. And the and this is
something in my own former life as a as a jazz player, which did not go very
far. One of the mistakes that I made was not I transcribed. I mean I I probably
transcribed 20 solos in my life and definitely parts of solos more I mean I
did 20 full solos and then lots of parts of solos but even at that point there
was transcriptions available you could get somebody else's transcription and play it
and the thing that I have found and tell me if this is true of somebody that is has a jazz life
playing a transcription that's already been written down by somebody else has 1/100th of the value of doing it
yourself even though doing it yourself is really at first particularly super timeconuming
and painful almost is it is it would you say that's a true I mean I I feel like that that's a
pretty commonly held perspective and I I I would say that yeah you're you're not
getting if you are pulling up a transcription that somebody else has done um that definitely has a lot of
information and can be helpful um for seeing being able to study And if you're
trying to analyze something, um, you have the text there, so to speak.
But, uh, the the value of if you transcribe it yourself is that you're also getting that ear training.
And that's for us as as musicians, that's very important part of the process. So, um, building up your ears,
being able to hear things, um, and maybe even there's a case for just like in
this day and age of everything is instant and so fast, you know, there's a certain value in and of itself of just
doing something slowly and and it it like a lot of things you see when you start. I I always would find that if I
did a different solo, it was slower. like my brain just had to get up to speed on how Chick Korea plays in frames
versus how John Cole trained versus Wayne Sharter and but then you get in and it starts speeding up I would find.
So yeah, I think there's definitely value in in doing doing everything by yourself and then you know playing it. A
lot of folks advocate don't write it down until you can play the whole thing and now you've really internalized it in
your fingers in your mind. Um, so that probably would fall on that side of the
the assessment. I mean, when I was when I was studying Jazz Alto with Gary Foster out in California, he and Lee Konis were
working on an album that they were going to play Warren Marsh solos as the heads of tunes. And so they had they were
transcribing the the the solos and and this this is one of the moments where I I I I thought to myself, yeah, I don't
think this is for me. I don't think I have the skill set to do this. when when when Gary said, "Yeah, I was really
embarrassed the other day. I I wrote out one of the solos that Warren played and I sent it to Lee and he found a wrong
note in it and he said, you know, I hadn't played it before I sent it to him." So, I'm thinking to myself, okay, Warren Mar
solos are complicated enough as it is. So, even to transcribe that on any level, super hard. But then to do it
without playing it, right, to just do it by ear, write it down, and be embarrassed that you've had one wrong
note in it. I'm like, that's a standard I don't I don't see myself getting from where I am now. Conceive of that. I that's that's above
my my brain power level to be able to do that just by ear and not not be playing
on the horn. So, that's that's amazing to me, you know, like it it's uh it's a very specific way of being able to access
that information. And and I think that that's actually one of the things that was a challenge for me, the challenge
for me in terms of playing jazz was that I was very used to it being eyes first, ears second, and then hearing it back,
right? It never really came originally from my ears. And I've been working on that for a long long time. It doesn't
really make a difference in in my work life and what I'm able to do in terms of playing the clarinet because I don't
have to improvise anything. I can read it. I can I know what it sounds like when I look at it and then I can play
it. But if I if I imagine something and then try and
play it, it's much much more difficult for me than if I read it, imagine it, and then try and play it. The the wires aren't built right in my head. And I
know I could fix it. I I'm I'm I'm lacking time and uh and and and a
reason, right, other than I want to. I want to, but I also want to do a lot of other things like live an adult life and
raise my child and play the clarinet and create a a system for people to learn the
clarinet, talk to my friends on a podcast. I there's a lot of things I want to do, so I rarely get to that. And when you rarely get to it, it doesn't
get any better, right? I mean, I do spend some time on it, but it's it's, you know, not that frequent and it's
that can be frustrating. So, when you and Virginia do your your tours and your Have you guys made a record together? If
not, you should. We have not yet. No. Yeah, we would definitely like to and she's
got a record coming out um is it this year or or next year? So, I think
that'll be focus on on her end. But yeah, we definitely want to get some recording and get that out at some
point. Well, let me just, you know, get get the buzz going. Yeah, it's going to be a great record. like it's like like it's
it's going to be fantastic because I think individually you you're both offering huge artistic
statements to the world, but you put it together and it's something unto itself. That's that's uh a really really great
representation of jazz music and clarinet in every register.
Logistically, it's not that hard for me to get to smalls, but emotionally sometimes times the time it takes to to get on the train and go down and and
spend, you know, hours doing like it's funny like you're talking about like things being immediate. Like that seems
like such an old thing to do to like actually spend hours to go hear music. But then when you do it and you go hear
people play music live, it's such a powerful thing and it's so easy to forget when I'm calculating like, okay,
well, it'll take me an hour to get there. I'll be there for three hours and then I'll come back. So that's like, you
know, that's a lot of time. But but then after I do it every single time, I'm on the train home just like alive,
vibrating with like happiness and joy that I got to experience this thing and like I can't get myself back into that
position enough to then go hear music the next week cuz living in New York City there's almost always someone to
hear. I mean, there is always someone to hear, but there's people I really want to hear a lot of the time. And I don't I don't do it. And it simply is get home
from a day doing stuff and then to go back out and spend another hour
commuting. It seems like a lot, but it's always been worth it. I've never once thought to myself, I wish I didn't do
that. Very much the reality. And I think that as we get older that that just is a dynamic that um gets increasingly
difficult that we look back and think like how when I was younger how did I have four or five hours to practice in a
day like the notion of that now is just how is that conceivable uh and it just I
think it's the reality that we get older we have different kind of responsibilities you know uh work income
parenting managing your household and uh and so It it it can be a challenge
because, you know, in our energy, we start getting older, we don't have as much energy. And so sometimes we got to
psych ourselves up to go and make that trip down to go to see the venue, go to see the the show. But of course, what
you're saying is that when we do, then we're rejuvenated. We're inspired. And
uh and that's important for us as then musicians, too. And that having that inspires us. Then maybe you come home
and like I need a little time on the practice on on my horn practicing before I go to bed. And and so that's
important. And I I find that even if I'm exhausted and I go out and it it just
it's rejuvenating and refreshing for me to to hear live music and in a way that yeah, recordings are cool, but hearing
live music that's still you you can't top that. Particularly in today's world, often
times we're not even presented necessarily with an entire album to listen to, right? Spotify will just play
us, you know, train records from any era. It doesn't really matter to Spotify that, you know, the the, you know, the
early mile stuff is completely different than what he was doing at the end of his life. John Cold Train as far as Spotify is concerned. So, it mixes them up in a
weird way. And so to hear people making a musical statement, an artistic statement that is you are forced forced
to listen to all of it, right? You can't skip anything. You can't move to the next track. You're there and you're in
it and it's so compelling. It really landed with me when you're talking about being rejuvenated by it because there are so many ways that all of our lives,
even if we're just a music fan. We love the clarinet, but we don't play it even, let's say. Maybe you don't even play it.
That is still going to rejuvenate you to hear that live experience and that and and be in the room with that particular
set of air vibrating, making that sound. It's a special thing. And it's hard to
remember how special it is when there's you can experience it so easily. I've got a nice speaker here. I can I can
listen to anybody play anything with the magic of the internet, but it's not the same. That is a good reminder of that.
And and and I I love that you put words to why, you know, because I so few
things give back to us in that way as to hearing somebody else play music.
Thanks, man. I really appreciate you being here. Like I've been a fan since the week that I met you and I got to
hear you play and uh it's been a really meaningful thing in my life to have you as a friend and to see you when you come
through town. I don't often get to Baltimore, but when I do, I would like to see that green room in person. And uh
yeah, and thank you for coming on and talking about all this stuff. It's it's really nice to hear somebody who has forged their own path in their own way.
And I I feel like what you're doing is inspiring for the world and what you're doing in the community, but also
artistically and with the clarinet. It's the bass clarinet. I mean, I Yeah, it's
it's it's remarkable. Tell tell us the dates of that tour one more time with Virginia.
Well, folks can go to toddmarcusjazz.com to get all dates on this upcoming tour in September from the 19th through the
28th. Um, and you know, going to the website is is the place to uh regardless
of when somebody is listening to this uh this podcast, this video um to see where I'm going to be next and and get more
about my work. Yeah. No, absolutely. every every link that leads to you will be in the show notes or the description for sure cuz I
I definitely want people to to hear what it is that we're talking about because it's uh it's exciting. All right, I'll
talk to you soon, man. Thank you, Jay. Thank you, Todd Marcus. I wish that I were in any of these locations to go
hear you play. Uh you and Virginia are doing something fantastic. The next time
you're in New York City, I'll be there. To the rest of you, thank you for being
here. It means a lot to me that you've taken your time to listen to this and I
hope you loved it as much as I loved making it. We'll see you next time on the Planet Ninja podcast.
